Wednesday, July 30, 2008
New Blog
If anyone has not caught my new blog, it is a dialogue with my great friend, a metaphysical naturalist. We are having some great discussions, so feel free to come visit and even comment! The site is www.dialogueontruth.blogspot.com.
Saturday, July 5, 2008
Letters from a Skeptic
My father and I have had a few dialogues lately concerning our different faiths. I thought I would reproduce much of what was written just for different approaches in apologetics. So here is one such correspondence.
Bud; I sincerely appreciate your offer of dialogue and debate. Only problem is, old dogs don't learn new tricks easily. You see, I was born into the world of evolution. There was never any hint at any other alternative form of thinking until I was well into college years. And by then, I was finally, laughlingly, admitting that some quacks from the back woods . . . those unfortunate enough to be raised in the piney woods where formal education never quite reached, had derrived the opinion they called creationism.
It was like the early "priests" (those who called themselves priests for lack of any better title) started shouting that the thunder and lightening, earthquakes and wind storms were actually Gods. That everyone should fall down on their knees and worship. Don't stop to think that any of these were natural events, occurring as the earth turned. And, if you paid a few alms to one of these "priests" they would give you a name that you and you alone could use when praying to these Gods . . . getting you special favors, of course.
At some point I learned that my own son, whose education I had obviously ignored . . . taking for granted that he would receive the same well grounded education (in evolution) I had, had somehow become a "Creationist." He was one of those who when faced with the fact that the Universe we know, and the multi-universes we imagine denies their existence. Who, when confronted by stacks of dinosaur bones, denies their existence. And all for the sake of being able to go to a "priest" to give him the name to call his God, to obtain special favors. Unthinkable!
That's why I won't debate or discuss Creationism vs Evolution with you. It is unimagin-able to me that anyone with any intelligence at all could deny the reality of the world we live in. It's no wonder you won't send your kiddos to public school, where they could possibly learn the reality of Evolution. Rather than kindle the flames of intolerance (which my attitude toward Creationism is), I'd rather set any such discussion aside . . . I do hope you can understand this. Your father is intolerant of very few things in this world. Possibly the only thing is STUPIDITY. And Creationism is, in my estimation, STUPIDITY!!
Dad,
Thanks you so much for sharing both your journey and your belief with me. It helps me to much better know you and where you are coming from. I will share with you my journey and my beliefs so that you might know more about who and what I am, for I fear that many of the ideas you think creationists have do not reflect my beliefs. You may think more of me, you may think less of me, but at least you will know what I believe and how I came to believe it.
I, like yourself, grew up only knowing one belief, and that was evolution. From earliest grade school through college, the public school system achieved their goal, and that was that all of my schooling was purely evolutionary. Their indoctrination was complete. As you so well put it, "There was never any hint at any other alternative form of thinking." I grew up believing it not just because my teachers taught it but because you believed it and taught it to me also. It was all I knew and therefore what I believed.
Then in 1987 God saved me. To tell you the truth, when I became a Christian there wasn't a huge revolution in my thinking though. At that point I just believed that God was the cause of evolution, that there was a supernatural force behind the natural. In one sense this was a new thought, in another it wasn't, because you and I both believe in non-physical (aka supernatural) forces that direct nature such as the laws of nature and the laws of logic. These cannot be felt, touched, tasted, heard, or seen, yet we both know that they exist and govern the natural universe.
I held to theistic evolution well into college, yet in the college arena this was a bigger issue of discussion. I heard about it in several talks as well as radio programs, people challenging the theory of evolution. Somewhere in the midst of this I had a huge realization, and that was that the theory of evolution was not a scientific theory but a historical one. This was important because I had always thought that evolution was scientific and science has to do with the real world and it can be tested and proven. What my teachers in my younger years had failed to do was to point out the distinction between "evolution" as a theory of origins and "evolution" as adaptation. The latter is a scientifically observed phenomenon. This is what Darwin saw on his voyages. We see small changes within species, and can test and observe them. This is science and is fact. The former cannot be observed or tested scientifically and is therefore a historical theory. Evolution as a theory of the origin of different species is beyond the scope of the scientific method. It is in the same class as Creationism. Science is based on observation, on testing the natural phenomena around us. Well, since the theory of the origin of species is, by definition, something that happened a long time ago, it therefore cannot be tested in a laboratory and observed. It is not, therefore, a scientific theory but a historical one. All science can do, if we assume uniformitarianism, is show us whether evolution was possible, not whether or not it actually happened.
Now, being your son, I really got into all of the intellectual aspects of what I believed about science and religion. I always wanted to be like you in that way. And so I began to delve into all of the science books I could, books that gave the other side of the story. I still had all of my evolutionary things I was reading because I was in college Biology and Anthropology, my English class had it, as did my Sociology and Psychology classes. It was at this point that I came to realize that what the public schools were teaching was extremely biased information. I won't bore you with all the details, but I will give you one example in light of what you said in your letter. In public school I learned about scientists like Kepler, Francis and Roger Bacon, Copernicus, Galileo, Robert Boyle, Pasteur, Maxwell, Faraday, Lord Kelvin, Joule, Mendel, Agassiz, Pascal, Linnaeus, and, of course, Isaac Newton. I am sure you also recognize most, if not all, of these names. All of them are considered some of the greatest scientists who ever lived and have given us science as we know it today. The problem? Well, my public school textbook (and obviously yours too) never mentioned that every one of these men were dogmatic Biblical Creationists, the ones you mentioned that were from the back woods. Biblical Creationism existed long before Darwin or Wallace ever posited their theory. It obviously existed long before you and I ever heard about it in our college years, but you and I never heard about it because of biased sources presenting what they wanted us to believe about science, not giving us the whole truth. And, by the way, lest we think that they were creationists simply because they were not yet acquainted with modern philosophies, many of them (Agassiz, Kelvin, Maxwell, Pasteur) were opponents of Darwinism. (This is one of the many reasons that we homeschool our children, they will learn a lot more information than the public schools will ever give them.)
Needless to say, I soon became a Creationist. I found the arguments and interpretations of evidence from the Creationists far more convincing, but I do suppose that this is because I was predisposed to that position (just like everyone else who has ever lived). Just as creationists believe in creationism because their beliefs predispose them to, so evolutionists believe in evolution because their religious beliefs predispose them to. Just as creationism is the story of origins for Christianity, so evolution is the story of origins for secular humanism/naturalism/atheism. So I do understand why you believe what you do and also why you despise creationism so much.
So I guess that is my story. There is, of course, much much more that could be said. A few more thoughts that I wanted to clarify before leaving you: 1)I do believe in the physical universe, I do not deny its existence.2)I do believe in Dinosaurs, and so does every creationist I know of. In fact the Bible taught about dinosaurs thousands of years before the first dinosaur fossil was ever discovered.
So again, I hope that no matter what your feelings are, that at least you understand a little more clearly what I believe and how I came to believe it. I hope you don't think this is me trying to teach you new tricks but just explaining to you more about me and my life.
Thanks again for sharing your story. I'm sorry mine was so much longer.
Bud; I sincerely appreciate your offer of dialogue and debate. Only problem is, old dogs don't learn new tricks easily. You see, I was born into the world of evolution. There was never any hint at any other alternative form of thinking until I was well into college years. And by then, I was finally, laughlingly, admitting that some quacks from the back woods . . . those unfortunate enough to be raised in the piney woods where formal education never quite reached, had derrived the opinion they called creationism.
It was like the early "priests" (those who called themselves priests for lack of any better title) started shouting that the thunder and lightening, earthquakes and wind storms were actually Gods. That everyone should fall down on their knees and worship. Don't stop to think that any of these were natural events, occurring as the earth turned. And, if you paid a few alms to one of these "priests" they would give you a name that you and you alone could use when praying to these Gods . . . getting you special favors, of course.
At some point I learned that my own son, whose education I had obviously ignored . . . taking for granted that he would receive the same well grounded education (in evolution) I had, had somehow become a "Creationist." He was one of those who when faced with the fact that the Universe we know, and the multi-universes we imagine denies their existence. Who, when confronted by stacks of dinosaur bones, denies their existence. And all for the sake of being able to go to a "priest" to give him the name to call his God, to obtain special favors. Unthinkable!
That's why I won't debate or discuss Creationism vs Evolution with you. It is unimagin-able to me that anyone with any intelligence at all could deny the reality of the world we live in. It's no wonder you won't send your kiddos to public school, where they could possibly learn the reality of Evolution. Rather than kindle the flames of intolerance (which my attitude toward Creationism is), I'd rather set any such discussion aside . . . I do hope you can understand this. Your father is intolerant of very few things in this world. Possibly the only thing is STUPIDITY. And Creationism is, in my estimation, STUPIDITY!!
Dad,
Thanks you so much for sharing both your journey and your belief with me. It helps me to much better know you and where you are coming from. I will share with you my journey and my beliefs so that you might know more about who and what I am, for I fear that many of the ideas you think creationists have do not reflect my beliefs. You may think more of me, you may think less of me, but at least you will know what I believe and how I came to believe it.
I, like yourself, grew up only knowing one belief, and that was evolution. From earliest grade school through college, the public school system achieved their goal, and that was that all of my schooling was purely evolutionary. Their indoctrination was complete. As you so well put it, "There was never any hint at any other alternative form of thinking." I grew up believing it not just because my teachers taught it but because you believed it and taught it to me also. It was all I knew and therefore what I believed.
Then in 1987 God saved me. To tell you the truth, when I became a Christian there wasn't a huge revolution in my thinking though. At that point I just believed that God was the cause of evolution, that there was a supernatural force behind the natural. In one sense this was a new thought, in another it wasn't, because you and I both believe in non-physical (aka supernatural) forces that direct nature such as the laws of nature and the laws of logic. These cannot be felt, touched, tasted, heard, or seen, yet we both know that they exist and govern the natural universe.
I held to theistic evolution well into college, yet in the college arena this was a bigger issue of discussion. I heard about it in several talks as well as radio programs, people challenging the theory of evolution. Somewhere in the midst of this I had a huge realization, and that was that the theory of evolution was not a scientific theory but a historical one. This was important because I had always thought that evolution was scientific and science has to do with the real world and it can be tested and proven. What my teachers in my younger years had failed to do was to point out the distinction between "evolution" as a theory of origins and "evolution" as adaptation. The latter is a scientifically observed phenomenon. This is what Darwin saw on his voyages. We see small changes within species, and can test and observe them. This is science and is fact. The former cannot be observed or tested scientifically and is therefore a historical theory. Evolution as a theory of the origin of different species is beyond the scope of the scientific method. It is in the same class as Creationism. Science is based on observation, on testing the natural phenomena around us. Well, since the theory of the origin of species is, by definition, something that happened a long time ago, it therefore cannot be tested in a laboratory and observed. It is not, therefore, a scientific theory but a historical one. All science can do, if we assume uniformitarianism, is show us whether evolution was possible, not whether or not it actually happened.
Now, being your son, I really got into all of the intellectual aspects of what I believed about science and religion. I always wanted to be like you in that way. And so I began to delve into all of the science books I could, books that gave the other side of the story. I still had all of my evolutionary things I was reading because I was in college Biology and Anthropology, my English class had it, as did my Sociology and Psychology classes. It was at this point that I came to realize that what the public schools were teaching was extremely biased information. I won't bore you with all the details, but I will give you one example in light of what you said in your letter. In public school I learned about scientists like Kepler, Francis and Roger Bacon, Copernicus, Galileo, Robert Boyle, Pasteur, Maxwell, Faraday, Lord Kelvin, Joule, Mendel, Agassiz, Pascal, Linnaeus, and, of course, Isaac Newton. I am sure you also recognize most, if not all, of these names. All of them are considered some of the greatest scientists who ever lived and have given us science as we know it today. The problem? Well, my public school textbook (and obviously yours too) never mentioned that every one of these men were dogmatic Biblical Creationists, the ones you mentioned that were from the back woods. Biblical Creationism existed long before Darwin or Wallace ever posited their theory. It obviously existed long before you and I ever heard about it in our college years, but you and I never heard about it because of biased sources presenting what they wanted us to believe about science, not giving us the whole truth. And, by the way, lest we think that they were creationists simply because they were not yet acquainted with modern philosophies, many of them (Agassiz, Kelvin, Maxwell, Pasteur) were opponents of Darwinism. (This is one of the many reasons that we homeschool our children, they will learn a lot more information than the public schools will ever give them.)
Needless to say, I soon became a Creationist. I found the arguments and interpretations of evidence from the Creationists far more convincing, but I do suppose that this is because I was predisposed to that position (just like everyone else who has ever lived). Just as creationists believe in creationism because their beliefs predispose them to, so evolutionists believe in evolution because their religious beliefs predispose them to. Just as creationism is the story of origins for Christianity, so evolution is the story of origins for secular humanism/naturalism/atheism. So I do understand why you believe what you do and also why you despise creationism so much.
So I guess that is my story. There is, of course, much much more that could be said. A few more thoughts that I wanted to clarify before leaving you: 1)I do believe in the physical universe, I do not deny its existence.2)I do believe in Dinosaurs, and so does every creationist I know of. In fact the Bible taught about dinosaurs thousands of years before the first dinosaur fossil was ever discovered.
So again, I hope that no matter what your feelings are, that at least you understand a little more clearly what I believe and how I came to believe it. I hope you don't think this is me trying to teach you new tricks but just explaining to you more about me and my life.
Thanks again for sharing your story. I'm sorry mine was so much longer.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
